From businesswoman to public servant… 3 questions to Astrid Panosyan-Bouvet, Member of Parliament in Paris, former company director

Astrid Panosyan-Bouvet has been a Member of Parliament for Paris since 2022. Born to an Armenian father and a Norwegian mother, Astrid holds degrees from HEC, Sciences-Po Paris and Harvard University.

Starting her career in consulting at AT Kearney she later held management positions at Axa and then Groupama. In 2014-2015, she advised Emmanuel Macron at the Ministry of the Economy, Finance and the Digital Economy, responsible on economic attractiveness and international investment. In 2015, she joined Unibail-Rodamco-Westfield as Managing Director of Central Functions, where her responsibilities included Human Resources, CSR, Risk Management and IT, a position she held until 2021. Additionally, she held directorships with Air France-KLM and Fabernovel.

In June 2022, she was elected Deputy for the 4th constituency of Paris.

With her international dimension and experience in both public servant and as a businesswoman, she offers us a valuable insight into professional equality issues, CSR and the relationships between the regulator and business.

Index publications and quotas are restrictive for companies. What is your response to this?

I understand this point, especially concerning small and medium sized enterprises (SMEs), where indices may need simplification at times. However, we can also use this constraint as an opportunity to ensure that recruitment, training and internal mobility are indeed the result of a genuine strategy based on talent and skills and not simply the consequence of conscious or unconscious bias. What cannot be quantified does not exist. By relying on data and documented patterns, we can raise awareness and enact meaningful measures.

Let’s take the Copé-Zimmermann index, established in 2011 for which we now have more hindsight. Would French companies have the unmatched gender diversity seen in Europe and the United States without these restrictive mechanisms? This increased gender diversity has coincided with increased internationalization and a rejuvenation of boards of directors. It’s worth noting that the implementation of this law has been gradual, a pivotal factor in its effectiveness. If this legislative constraint were lifted today, very few companies would revert to previous practices, not only due to the quality of governance, but also considering their reputation, employer brand and ESG rating.

As for the Pénicaud index introduced in 2018 to measure professional equality, I noticed in my previous professional experiences that comparable indexes required in Great Britain, or the United States were notably less intricate than ours. This is no doubt why only 58% of the companies concerned have reported their results so far. Additionally, in line with the plan to incorporate a European directive on professional equality into French legislation in 2023, the government has expressed its intent to simplify the index. In broad terms, I am entirely in favor of the notion that any new regulation should undergo “SME test” before implementation. It’s important to remember that SMEs contribute to 15% of salaried employment and 23% of added value.

During the pension debate, there was a debate on the introduction of a senior index for workers over 50 or 55. Their employment rate is only half of the most performing Nordic countries. This is a huge human and economic loss: we are depriving ourselves of valuable expertise, as well as productive and contributing forces. We have an ageing population, but we also have recruitment pressures, so we must strive for improvement.  It’s crucial to recognize that excluding a senior citizen from the workforce affects three (3) generations: the senior citizens themselves, their aging parents for whom they often become caregivers, and their children, whom they may still support.

The employment of older people cannot be decreed. Simply desiring seniors to remain in the workforce isn’t enough; we must ensure that they have the capability and the opportunity to do so. This raises the question of physical aptitudes and skills. Ageism persists as the primary form of discrimination factor for those over 55s: as the French Human Rights Ombudsman has pointed out, a worker over 55 is three (3) times less likely to be considered for a job interview compared to a younger applicant. Phased retirement should be a priority, as seen in the Nordic countries.

As we can see, there are many levers for action, ranging from ongoing training, occupational health initiatives and cultural representations, as well as public schemes such as phased retirement and job/unemployment accumulation, which extend beyond a simple seniority metric. However, a senior index of this kind – if it is easy to generate and read – can be used to discuss the issue, both within social organizations and on management committees.

Let’s not forget that ten years ago we admired the apprenticeship systems of our German and Swiss neighbors. Considerable progress has been made since then. I’m convinced that we can achieve similar success in employing seniors in our country.

Can you tell us what you think about the importance of CSR issues on boards of directors?

For a nation, the economy, ecology and social issues must move forward together, nurtured by a culture of compromise. Similarly for a company: evaluating performance solely on financial metrics is insufficient in a world where natural resources are not infinite and where the polarization of societies thrives on the feeling of individual and collective decline. ESG is not a “nice to have» enhancement to the employer branding or corporate communications, nor is it a mere regulatory “tick the box” for compliance reasons. Rather, it should be a lever that must be at the heart of the company’s vision and culture, encompassing its purpose, its markets, its business model, its value chain, but also its HR policy and the quality of its engagement with stakeholders.

Companies have recognized this imperative. Today, Corporate (CSR) expertise is valued for its resilience and collective intelligence. There are more and more CSR committees on boards of directors and supervisory boards, alongside audit committees and appointments and remuneration committees. I won’t be surprised if this becomes standard practice in a few years’ time. This function is also increasingly represented directly on the Executive Committee, which is a sign of the growing and legitimate role it is being given.

How does your experience of the business world help you?

The National Assembly is unfortunately more renowned today as a place of “sound and fury” than of civic conversation in a country that is already very fractured. Both through my Scandinavian origins and my experience as a businesswoman, I strive to bring my trademark: a grounding in reality, a balance approach between strategic vision, prioritization and attention to detail, a sense of action and results… but also the ability to listen and a good dose of curiosity, with the firm conviction that no one has a monopoly on good ideas!

Hence why, last October, I established a cross-party group on changes in the world of work. This group comprises around forty members of parliament (MPs) from different parties, and I asked two colleagues from the LR and PS opposition parties to co-chair it with me. Together we conducted hearings with company directors, trade unionists and researchers. Building on this collective diagnosis, we are in the process of crafting a bill on local dialogue and promoting professional engagement. Additionally, we collaborated on an article r in the national press about senior workers, for which we plan to propose joint legislation following the failure of social negotiations in the spring. I believe that without my previous business experience I likely wouldn’t have initiated these transparent initiatives.